Brett reviewed some new gloves on skyd. Buried in that review, he hints that he will often vary his throwing grip for different kinds of throws. In the comments, a keen-eyed reader asks Brett about it. I'm putting it here for later reference and so it doesn't get buried/lost.
Reference:
http://skydmagazine.com/2016/03/product-review-layout-ultimate-gloves/
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Mohammed Waseem • 11 days ago
Brett Mohammed Waseem • 11 days ago
Reference:
http://skydmagazine.com/2016/03/product-review-layout-ultimate-gloves/
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Hey Brett. Great review. Sorry to veer off topic, but the line "utilizing slightly different grips
(split finger, power grip, hybrid, etc) for the same throw depending on distance, power, and
weighting" caught my eye. I don't do that, never thought of using it to my advantage either.
Have you explained this in detail before, in an article/video? If not, could you please elaborate on it? Thanks!
(split finger, power grip, hybrid, etc) for the same throw depending on distance, power, and
weighting" caught my eye. I don't do that, never thought of using it to my advantage either.
Have you explained this in detail before, in an article/video? If not, could you please elaborate on it? Thanks!
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Hey Mohammed,
I have not talked about it much via the internet, but have discussed it in person with
teammates/friends/frisbee folk. This idea comes from my prior sports experience as a
semi-pro tennis player. Tennis players can have a wide range of grips to generate
different shots. From an eastern grip to a western grip, and everything in between:
https://www.google.com/search?...
I have not talked about it much via the internet, but have discussed it in person with
teammates/friends/frisbee folk. This idea comes from my prior sports experience as a
semi-pro tennis player. Tennis players can have a wide range of grips to generate
different shots. From an eastern grip to a western grip, and everything in between:
https://www.google.com/search?...
The idea is that when you are battling baseline to baseline with hard hitting ground strokes,
you want to hit it as hard as possible to put your opposition on defense, while having enough
top spin to keep the ball in the court. Closing the racket face (more western), generates more
topspin but usually cuts down power. When you decide to go for a winner, you might want to
flatten your shot out which would cut down on top spin, but generate more pace.
Obviously the room for error shrinks, but leads to a more aggressive shot (more eastern grip).
When you come to the net to volley, you will switch to a continental grip to maximize the racket
face area. Other factors will come into play such as position on the court, where your opponent
is positioned and so forth. The closer to the net, the higher the clearance, so you would need
more top spin. In general, tennis players don't use one grip the entire match, not even the
entire point, but will shift their grip for each tailored shot.
you want to hit it as hard as possible to put your opposition on defense, while having enough
top spin to keep the ball in the court. Closing the racket face (more western), generates more
topspin but usually cuts down power. When you decide to go for a winner, you might want to
flatten your shot out which would cut down on top spin, but generate more pace.
Obviously the room for error shrinks, but leads to a more aggressive shot (more eastern grip).
When you come to the net to volley, you will switch to a continental grip to maximize the racket
face area. Other factors will come into play such as position on the court, where your opponent
is positioned and so forth. The closer to the net, the higher the clearance, so you would need
more top spin. In general, tennis players don't use one grip the entire match, not even the
entire point, but will shift their grip for each tailored shot.
Utilizing this idea, why would a power grip be more advantageous for a short touch throw over
a split finger? Much like the tennis analogy, I find small changes and alterations in grip
provide distinct advantages in different situations. For examples, split finger grip (index finger
sticking out perpendicular to the rim; e.g. index finger extended directly to the center of the disc)
provides more stability and control over the release, but creates less power. Given an inside
break throw, based upon size of window, position of defender, awareness of offensive cutter,
and a few other factors, I will alter where my index finger sits on the disc from a power grip
(index finger on the rim with middle finger, pressing hard to create more snap) if the window
is tight, defender close, and the disc needs to arrive quickly, to a split finger grip if the
defender is loose, window larger, or maybe a face mark where more touch will be advantageous
to the cutter.
a split finger? Much like the tennis analogy, I find small changes and alterations in grip
provide distinct advantages in different situations. For examples, split finger grip (index finger
sticking out perpendicular to the rim; e.g. index finger extended directly to the center of the disc)
provides more stability and control over the release, but creates less power. Given an inside
break throw, based upon size of window, position of defender, awareness of offensive cutter,
and a few other factors, I will alter where my index finger sits on the disc from a power grip
(index finger on the rim with middle finger, pressing hard to create more snap) if the window
is tight, defender close, and the disc needs to arrive quickly, to a split finger grip if the
defender is loose, window larger, or maybe a face mark where more touch will be advantageous
to the cutter.
Another example is when throwing a high release flick. Given human physiology, I have a few
levers/cantilevers to control release angle/pitch, these being my wrist, my elbow, my shoulder,
and my hips, primarily (could argue more, but simplicity is easier to understand and the
reader can extrapolate). For example, if I hold the disc with a power grip forehand, I can keep
my hips parallel to the ground, my arm parallel to the ground, and wrist parallel to the ground,
and upon release, the disc should theoretically be released flat (everything is parallel to the
ground). Now, holding all components the same, but bending my elbow up 90 degrees, if I
release the disc (it now being straight up and down), it will be thrown as a blade.
(replace dumbell with disc)
https://www.google.com/search?...
levers/cantilevers to control release angle/pitch, these being my wrist, my elbow, my shoulder,
and my hips, primarily (could argue more, but simplicity is easier to understand and the
reader can extrapolate). For example, if I hold the disc with a power grip forehand, I can keep
my hips parallel to the ground, my arm parallel to the ground, and wrist parallel to the ground,
and upon release, the disc should theoretically be released flat (everything is parallel to the
ground). Now, holding all components the same, but bending my elbow up 90 degrees, if I
release the disc (it now being straight up and down), it will be thrown as a blade.
(replace dumbell with disc)
https://www.google.com/search?...
Now, assuming I want to release the disc as theoretically high as possible, my shoulder will move
my arm perpendicular to the ground (replace dumbell with disc):
https://www.google.com/search?...
my arm perpendicular to the ground (replace dumbell with disc):
https://www.google.com/search?...
Holding everything constant, again the disc will be released as a blade. So I must make
adjustments to get a flat throw off. I can't utilize my elbow as bending that alters my throw
from a flick to a hammer (bending my elbow moves my release more and more over my
head). Altering my hips will only cause it to be less high release, which is against our stated
purpose. So the only cantilever I can use is my wrist and subsequently, grip. If I bend my
wrist away from my body 90 degrees, the disc will be parallel to the ground, however, my
wrist will not be able to maintain that position throughout my throw due to my throwing
mechanics. My wrist naturally will roll up on the snap due to angle and physiology (combination
of flexion/extension, radial deviation, and pronation/supination). So again, I will change my
grip. To manage a flat release, I will switch to a power grip which allows the disc face to point
away from my body and creates a negative pitch (if the disc being parallel to the ground is
0 degrees, then allowing the face of the disc angle away from my body would be -x degrees).
Along with this, I will also move my thumb from off the top of the disc to the side of the rim
(this will further allow more negative pitch).
adjustments to get a flat throw off. I can't utilize my elbow as bending that alters my throw
from a flick to a hammer (bending my elbow moves my release more and more over my
head). Altering my hips will only cause it to be less high release, which is against our stated
purpose. So the only cantilever I can use is my wrist and subsequently, grip. If I bend my
wrist away from my body 90 degrees, the disc will be parallel to the ground, however, my
wrist will not be able to maintain that position throughout my throw due to my throwing
mechanics. My wrist naturally will roll up on the snap due to angle and physiology (combination
of flexion/extension, radial deviation, and pronation/supination). So again, I will change my
grip. To manage a flat release, I will switch to a power grip which allows the disc face to point
away from my body and creates a negative pitch (if the disc being parallel to the ground is
0 degrees, then allowing the face of the disc angle away from my body would be -x degrees).
Along with this, I will also move my thumb from off the top of the disc to the side of the rim
(this will further allow more negative pitch).
I would take the thumb, which is on top and pointing towards the center of the disc, and move
it as close to the rim as possible. This will counter the effects of flexion/extension, radial
deviation, and pronation/supination that will occur due to the current position of the disc
leading to a flat throw.
it as close to the rim as possible. This will counter the effects of flexion/extension, radial
deviation, and pronation/supination that will occur due to the current position of the disc
leading to a flat throw.
There are plenty of other examples, including with the backhand. Some people reference that
I throw a more 'air-bounce' backhand, but I can throw with no bounce to extreme bounce
just by altering the position of my thumb on the top of the disc. If my receiver is shallow and
plants to cut deep while my mark is loose, I might throw a deep backhand with some
touch/air-bounce/weight so that the receiver has plenty of time to run onto it (moving thumb
away from rim towards middle of disc, on top). If I wait so he gets farther down the field such
that I can rip a hard backhand, my mark might have time to get tight and prohibit this throw.
So throwing earlier with touch is better. If my receiver is halfway down the field already, I need
to expedite the flight so will need to rip it as previously described (move thumb closer to the
rim on top).
I throw a more 'air-bounce' backhand, but I can throw with no bounce to extreme bounce
just by altering the position of my thumb on the top of the disc. If my receiver is shallow and
plants to cut deep while my mark is loose, I might throw a deep backhand with some
touch/air-bounce/weight so that the receiver has plenty of time to run onto it (moving thumb
away from rim towards middle of disc, on top). If I wait so he gets farther down the field such
that I can rip a hard backhand, my mark might have time to get tight and prohibit this throw.
So throwing earlier with touch is better. If my receiver is halfway down the field already, I need
to expedite the flight so will need to rip it as previously described (move thumb closer to the
rim on top).
My point with regards to the gloves was that these nuances were harder to feel and execute
due to the sticky nature of the grip. For most people, this is highly advantageous, but given
I will use a number of frenetic movements, I found the gloves made some of these habits more
challenging and requiring more time to get acquainted.
due to the sticky nature of the grip. For most people, this is highly advantageous, but given
I will use a number of frenetic movements, I found the gloves made some of these habits more
challenging and requiring more time to get acquainted.
I apologize that I couldn't take better pictures (google is what I have at my disposal currently)
and delve into this with more detail, but I am at work and wanted to respond. I hope this
provides at least a solid starting point to explaining what I meant. If you want to know more,
feel free to post and I will keep responding. If others are interested, maybe I can throw a article
together with video/pics.
and delve into this with more detail, but I am at work and wanted to respond. I hope this
provides at least a solid starting point to explaining what I meant. If you want to know more,
feel free to post and I will keep responding. If others are interested, maybe I can throw a article
together with video/pics.
Have a great day, God Bless,
Brett
Brett
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